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Author Topic: Committee meeting minutes 0/806/2020
mattbindon
Jedi
Posts: 171
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Post Re: Committee meeting minutes 0/806/2020
on: July 6, 2020, 19:30
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I built and have always run a stock 260pum Zenoah in the Offshore Series. I have entered all the offshores as P1 now called a Stock. As far as I am aware the change from P1 to Stock came about so that P1 could go back to Zenoah 231 engines and people could complete for records in a class that had a history before incorporating 260pum engine under the same guidelines set out in T1. I now enter the offshore in the stock class meaning the same rules apply to the motor as those for T1. This class appealed to me at the time and still does based originally on my lack of knowledge of petrol engines at the time and the affordability of these engine.

Bigfishbob
Jedi
Posts: 284
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Post Re: Committee meeting minutes 0/806/2020
on: July 6, 2020, 21:04
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OK Matt's on the button, when I was last on committee we reinstated the 23cc class as P1, to get the remaining 23cc engines off the shelves back on the water. Because the Stock class had been called P1 for a while up to that point, we simply called it the stock zenoah class as defined in the NZMPBA General racing rules. Note that the Stock Zenoah can be raced in T1 thunderboat, crackerbox and Offshore, as Steve says above.

The reality is that if you want entry level classes to run at low cost then run a T1 thunderboat,or an offshore boat. Both classes are designed for that purpose. Some clubs are running the crackerbox class and having heaps of fun too.

there's no need for a modified engined boat to be competitive in offshore, Birmy Korving has won the national offshore series twice in the last three years and got second, with an un-modified Zenoah 260 zenoah. I think he might run an Ally Iso block which is why he races as a P2, but he's had no internal mods done to his engine. I've won the series twice and have run a modified P2 since 2008, I'm running my second jug in 12 years. Modified engines do not make the sport expensive, if you stick with tried and proven oils and mix ratios, and don't buy engines from people screwing the last piece of horsepower out of an engine with excessively high exhaust timings that weaken the jug.

If you want entry level you have three classes, and an entry level modeller can have all the fun they want running a unmodified engine mono and or cat in offshore and club oval racing.

The other issue with Stock engines, is we then get to fight about who's running illegal stock engines. Then the fun really starts when we start accusing each other of using teflon coated pistons etc. and demand scrutineered stock engines. No thank you maam!

This hobby doesn't need anymore aggro than it already has. Let's get back to run what you brung and start having fun again. We need people to start turning up to club days, having fun and sticking around, to grow our number, not more racing classes.

Sorry
Jedi
Posts: 206
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Post Re: Committee meeting minutes 0/806/2020
on: July 12, 2020, 22:35
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Hi all, I think you are missing the point of what I am trying to say. For a newby in our hobby unless they go in at the deep end there is nothing for them and that is why they get frustrated. The obvious type of boat for a beginner is a Deep Vee Mono, but if they were to turn up at our club on race day they will be competing against highly competitive boats with modified engines. Apart from T1 Thunder boats that have the stock Zenoah 260 there is no other class for a beginner to run in. And you don't have to be enstein to work out that a T1 Thunder boat is not the boat that a beginner starts the hobby in. To put it bluntly we do not have or run classes for newbys, it is all about winning, winning, winning and that is why I don't attend club days. Until clubs actually adopt and run specific classes on race days for newbys the hobby/sport is always going to suffer. Ok some clubs might say we have electric classes for newbys, but not everyone wants to run electrics and I am one of them as I am a petrol head. Lets get back to grass roots and make it mandatory that each club on race day have a minimum of two classes that run a stock Zenoah 260 in them. Cheers Sorry.

Mr-
Electric
Jedi
Posts: 148
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Post Re: Committee meeting minutes 0/806/2020
on: July 13, 2020, 07:48
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Actually Brian as you have not attended or run at club days for quite some time (years now) you are a fair way off base here. You know very well that our club days are run what you brung and we cater something for everyone. While everyone is going to have a go at winning races, the focus is on trying to enjoy what we do. With new members we try to encourage them to get their boats set up and running well, focus on finishing races first and the natural result of that is they will become more competitive. As usual you have spent more time in your own head, and no time at the pond being involved with the club days. BTW, T1 Thunderboat is as good a boat as a mono to start with, and is our most popular class. Maybe you should check yourself, because I can remember you banging on about how you were going to beat everybody with twin setups and a tunnel with a quickdraw motor etc. At the end of the day you can be part of the problem or part of the solution.

It is up to individual clubs as to how they run, that has nothing to do with the NZMPBA. The class rules that are set by The NZMPBA only apply to National championships and records, other than that they are a working guideline. There no way they can mandate or enforce anything to individual clubs. That is up to the clubs themselves and their members. You obviously do not understand what the 'Association' bit means.

TJ and AJ-
McC
Newbie
Posts: 1
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Post Re: Committee meeting minutes 0/806/2020
on: July 16, 2020, 11:55
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As above comment this is what I am getting at with stock classes it is a stock zanoha straight out of the box NO modifications what so ever this can be easily governed by when motor is bought by a club member it is taken to the club captain where they put a identifying seal or mark on the engine that can be clearly seen if the motor has been taken apart.
If repairs are needed take replacement parts back to captain of club to sign off original replacements and then when motor is rebuilt to be resealed and marked by their club captain.

This is done in the full sized racing boats cars and most motor sports.
All I am trying to do is make it more affordable and appealing to newbies.
I have run stock motors straight out of the box always the only thing I do is play around with tuned pipe and length of tuned pipe.
I have 1 super hot hanson zenoah motor that I run in my hydro and I clearly state that it is a hot motor when running.
What I am trying to stop is people saying they are running a stock zenoah motor when they clearly have had work done on them.

Cheers

Bigfishbob
Jedi
Posts: 284
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Post Re: Committee meeting minutes 0/806/2020
on: July 28, 2020, 12:50
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I think you're both over complicating it;
1. If you have issues with faster boats running over slower boats, that's a driver skill issue. Nothing more nothing less, rubbing is racing they say, but perpetual offenders need a good talking to, and a progression of consequences if they don't change their ways..
2. The more administration complications you add, the less people you will have stepping forward to run events. The whole stock engine issue is a nightmare to administrate. Having somebody checking engine internals etc. Sounds fine in theory, but it's an administrative headache that won't solve the problem you have.
3. Newbies can and should run their offshore boats in club mono racing. Big Red has won a few national oval titles over the years, and isn't that much slower with a stock engine. You have beginner classes in crackerbox, T1 and Offshore. Get people running in those classes and maximise their time on the water buy running in the other petrol hydro events (i.e T2 (yep, there's nothing stopping you running a stock Zenoah with other brands of 26cc non-modified engines), Petrol Sport Hydro, and mono classes with offshore boats)

Bigbird
Administrator
Posts: 276
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Post Re: Committee meeting minutes 0/806/2020
on: July 28, 2020, 14:11
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Agree with you on point 2 Bob. Always been a bone of contention.

My suggested solution is of those competitors running in 'Stock', make them responsible for administering their own affairs. This can be done by appointing their own scrutineer for the regatta, or for a term such as a years worth of regattas. The responsibility for enforcing the 'stock rules' is then outside the responsibility of the wider regatta organisation and any disputes are dealt with exclusively within the 'Stock group' who will then advise the regatta organiser of the outcome. Then the race results can be adjusted accordingly, if necessary.

Mr-
Electric
Jedi
Posts: 148
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Post Re: Committee meeting minutes 0/806/2020
on: July 28, 2020, 15:35
Quote

Actually you are all over thinking the whole thing. ALL the classes are there as rule sets that really only apply to National Championship competition and records. Aside from these there is in fact little the (engine) class rules matter for at club level unless clubs utilize them for competition.
Offshore quite frankly would be better off without classes and be run open with boats simply meeting engine class requirements to be 'legal',i.e. it could be stock Zenoah 26, P2, P3 etc. (with the one boat/replacement for the season rule intact). The end result is an overall one for the trophy anyway and you would then moot the engine class debate period.
As far as checking stock motors, there is a clear rule (T1 motor) and 'dummies guide' for this and even the electric guy could tech them. Checking stock engines is really only something that needs to be used for place winners at a Nationals or record breaking. It is also at the discretion of the contest director. Y'all make this stuff more difficult than it is really!

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